I believe anyone considering a pre-ownwed watch from

anybody (individual, second hand dealer, or even an authorized dealer) should understand there is some level of risk when making a purchase of this nature.

I understand a lot of things like tags, plastic sleeves, etc.could probably be easily replicated to fool almost anyone, but when I would take a trade-in, I always sent the watch in for service before it was offered for sale and left it sealed so the client could be assured it had been taken care of properly and eliminating any risk.

Of course, many dealers or individuals may not want to spend the money or the time to have it serviced prior to placing it for sale and leave that for the purchaser. If so, I would attempt negotiate a price adjustment or at least remind him of your last experience..

With respect to the certificate of origin, there are a lot of reasons they are blank .... maybe not to Patek's liking but do exist. It used to be quite easy for dealers to get a new COA if necessary but no more. For example, if a dealer sells a watch as a gift with the COA filled out and it comes back for exchange, the watch must be sent back along with the paperwork. The watch would have to be evaluated to ensure it could be sold as new again and then the new COA would be issued. Takes a lot of time and some money to follow those guidelines and the easy way to eliminate it was to just leave it blank. Even the policies with the best intentions can result in reasons to bypass them.

I smell smoke - what about you?

By: dr.kol : April 22nd, 2013-12:14

In New Bond Street London there are many watch stores. At least one of them is selling a lot of Patek Philippe watches. I once bought a 5134G from this shop and took it for service to Patek Geneva. The watch looked good but the bridges were damaged, screw...

It certainly is possible...

By: patrick_y : April 22nd, 2013-12:26

Sounds like an elaborate smoke screen, or a "scented smoke" but nevertheless still smoke. Are you going through authorized dealers? The stores on New Bond Street are supposed to be reputable. But nevertheless, they're not above anything and if left to the...

I'm speaking about 2nd hand watches.

By: dr.kol : April 22nd, 2013-12:58

And I took my money back. Best, Kari

"It's a bold new world"

By: Hamster07 : April 22nd, 2013-22:08

Can't agree more. With the advance in technology, everything can be forged. College graduation certificates, passports, watch case, serial numbers, gold seals inside watch cases (I have seen this in flesh - a 18k Cartier white gold Baignoire with bracelet...

Superb advice...

By: patrick_y : April 23rd, 2013-10:44

Buy the seller. Not the watch. Truly superb advice.

I've seen many discontinued references with open papers...

By: no_frills : April 22nd, 2013-12:53

... but mostly no name, very seldom no date. And for more recent models (especially the ones still in production), it is very difficult to find watches in the secondary market with open papers (no name, no date). If you knew how to look, Patek uses numeri...

Yep, all these six watches

By: dr.kol : April 22nd, 2013-13:04

are no name - no date! I have been following this dealer of 2nd hand watches for a while and he seems to have often quite modern watches with papers without date. My logic is working in such a way that one shop can't simply all the time find watches with ...

with its stamp. But there's no name and date. It's a common practice in the not distant past as collectors usually request the AD to leave them out for obvious reasons. I have a collector friend who will only buy if his name is left out, so is the date pr...

Name I understand.

By: dr.kol : April 22nd, 2013-18:29

But why the papers without date are collecting to one shop. This situation that around 20% are without date is very typical when this one shop is concerned. Best, Kari

no idea but 20% to me is not an alarming

By: Mech : April 22nd, 2013-20:43

figure. It's like one of the shops I know here sell many with only Extract papers and sometimes I wonder why people loose important things that way? Puzzling. Mech.

open papers

By: sam1234 : April 22nd, 2013-19:42

"He doesn't want the next owner to know who the previous owner was is the main reason doing so." But he knows who's selling him the watch anyway, doesn't he??

not if he sells it via a pre-owned reseller. Most

By: Mech : April 22nd, 2013-20:41

sellers would sell their watches this way, at least those I know. Mech.

Anonymity seems very common

By: Frederick : April 22nd, 2013-23:36

I purchased a high end watch thru someone who is well known in this community. He was selling it on behalf of someone he knew who wished to remain anonymous. The condition for sales was the owners name would be removed (crossed out or cut out) from the ce...

anonymity

By: sam1234 : April 23rd, 2013-03:02

Not wanted to get off topic but curious about this issue of anonymity. I have sold several watches over the years that had my name on the COO and never thought twice about it. We sell cars and houses with our names on the registration and deed (some perha...

Anonymity

By: w220 : April 23rd, 2013-06:15

Anonymity is important to me. No reason that a future owner should know who I am, and possibly find my home address and target me for a burglary. Paranoid perhaps, sure, but these are high value items. I have purchased all my watches new from AD, and I as...

Ok, but the problem that i see is that...

By: sam1234 : April 23rd, 2013-08:32

On the bottom of the certificate is printed the following : "this certificate will be valid only if dated and if the watch was sold to the consumer by the authorized Patek Philippe retailer whose name appears hereon" Autographing your certificate and hono...

"I'm flying to London early in the morning ..."

By: small-luxury-world : April 23rd, 2013-05:22

Honestly, I wouldn´t even think about after your story. Hard to believe for a German Purist :-) Good luck!!! Oliver

Thanks Oliver - no luck needed.

By: dr.kol : April 23rd, 2013-06:18

Because I'm not going to try my luck. I got here in London a good explanation how things function with this shop and from where they get their watches. But like the Purist from London said "I would not buy from them", I'm doing the same. Probably the watc...