eric.vonschonberg
403
why this is different
I'd have to agree with you about most Pateks. The 5960P was going
for a huge premium to those who didn't want a long wait. But, once
it went into full production, it eventually became the case that
there were 5960Ps sitting around unsold (and destined for grey
market dealers). But, this is because there isn't much limiting
the production of 5960P, expect the total productive capacity of
Patek. But, the 5960P with its new modern chrono movement requires
much less effort to build and adjust, so it is not hard for Patek
to churn them out. Any limiting of them is likely due to Patek
wanting to avoid them becoming too common.
But the 5970 is different. Starting in this year, Patek no longer
gets Nouvelle Lemanias, so that puts a hard limit on the number that
can be made. The 5970G, 5970R, and now 5970J have all been discontinued.
Shortly, the 5970P will be discontinued as well. I don't think the
poor world economy will have much of an effect. Basically, there are
many more people who can easily afford a 5970P than there are 5970Ps
to go around. Plus, people who can afford a 5970P are barely affected
in any personal way by the economy. Sure, it may be disappointing to
be worth only $100 Million this year when you were worth $200 Million last
year, but from the standpoint of being able to afford a 5970P nothing
has changed.
Finally, the 5970 is still one of the grail watches sought
after by both collectors who appreciate its horological significance
and speculators who don't have to speculate much to realize all
5970s (even 5970J) will surely appreciate in value. Interestingly
enough, the recent downturn has forced many people to sell their 5970s
at fire sale prices, so they can raise cash for margin calls and
other unfortunate consequences of Great Depression II. For those
of you who are collectors, now is a great time to acquire a 5970
at a price that years from now you will be kicking yourself for passing
by.
Eric von Schonberg
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New 5970P - Will this be the PP of 2009
Please give me your opinion as to the new 5970P This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-04-11 12:09:45
I can't give you my opinion because I have not seen one ......
But put it this way, if I had the opportunity to buy one. I would grab it with both hands.
it will surely be the watch to have in 2009!!!
if i had the opportunity i would grab it with both hands and feet!!! i'm number 6 on my AD's list chances of me getting one this year or next or even the year after that are slim to zero!!lol!! R's Sid
Per my AD, the authorized AD's will receive between none to one 5970P total.
Your chances are of obtaining a 5970 P is none to none being 6th in line.
I disagree that they will be hard to come by, Arnon
I guarantee they will be easily obtainable, through the gray market, as usual, and I bet we will see at least a couple dozen (yes I said a couple DOZEN) for sale in the next year, two years... But this does not mean that it will be easy to get one from an...
Mostel your right on. Grey Market as usual, even for 5970P
Mostel, we seem to have this endoring love afair with Patek Customers and their Authorized Dealers and if you say anthing about Grey Market or anything about discount you will get your head cut off. Certainly, as long as the economy is not red hot and eve...
I wouldn't believe everything your AD tells you. He wants you to buy and pay top dollar
Wake up and smell the coffee, these Authorized Dealers are Merchants trying to get the most money out of you. They are only interested in getting every last dollar that they can out of you This is not a rude response. I think what I am saying is true. Pat...
If you like black dial...
this is yummy I'm not a fan of Black Dial, well...I do like Journe Black Label tourbillion and the Kari Black Observatoire. *CL
blue would have been much better
Its not that I dislike black dials, on the contrary But when I saw the 5070P with blue dial months ago I was suprised by it's beauty. I don't know why but platinum and a blue sunbuers dial is amazing. There is 1 VERY lucky owner with e 5970 blue dial ... ...
It is already!
Saw it in basel, you can not compare only by seeing it on a foto or on the homepage! THIS THE ULTIMATE WATCH FOR ME It will be an important watch in the history of most aftersought collectors watches.
Well...I know
I can't compare a photo to a real watch but it is still a Black Dial. I have seen what a black dial has done to 5971, 3970 or 5004, can't really think what diff will this make. I know it is a beauty for those who likes black dial watch but it sure ain't a...
I am sure it will be popular....but unfortunately occasionally chaised and obtained by...
.....some buyers who will want it only because of its rarity, bragging rights and 'investment potential'
Probably will be popular Certainly can get it if you have the money
It is doubtful that there will be any unfilled orders on this model. Eventually all orders will get filled if your willing to wait. For sure there will be alot of hype and arrogant talk about the impossibility of obtaining this model, but unless the econo...
why this is different
I'd have to agree with you about most Pateks. The 5960P was going for a huge premium to those who didn't want a long wait. But, once it went into full production, it eventually became the case that there were 5960Ps sitting around unsold (and destined for...
Why do you think patek Philippe will no longer get Nouvelle Lemania ebauches?
Hi Eric, I mostly agree with what you write except for one point! I've never seen anywhere that Patek Philippe is no longer going to get Nouvelle Lemania base ebauches. The Swatch Group has never said AFAIK that they would no longer deliver them either! D...
general knowledge at this point
Patek no longer getting Nouvelle Lemania after 2009 has been part of the general knowledge for so long now, that I'm having trouble remembering where this info originated. I know it has been discussed on another Patek forum (it's another popular Patek for...
Thank you Eric
Hi, Thank you for your frank answer. I know that it is an information, or presented like an information on many fora and has been for a while. Still I dont remember ever seeing a real statemetn of such information by an authorized source. It is exactly li...
Jerome: In response Lemania movements...
I recall reading an article in which the swatch group stated that they would no longer suppy Lemaina movements after 2010 (??). If I recall, the article was written in "International Watch" magazine. I will try to dig for it ( I read it approx 1+ years ag...
Jerome, found the article....
International Watch Magazine: September 2006, page 96 Interview with Mr.Hayek: The article states that by 2010, the Swatch Group would halt sales of movement ebaches (kits) to firms outside the Swatch Group (the original set date was 2008, but Swiss Autho...
Thank you Arthur....
Hi Arthur, I indeed remember this information. I don't know either if there is new information since that time, or new legal decisions on that subject. The original decision was indeed for "ebauches" (calibre kits) as a general policy for the Swatch Group...
Jerome, I agree...
Hi Jerome, No one truly know's how this will unfold. However, my opinion is the Lemania based watches will ceize production, in the foreseeable future; approx. 12-24 months, not necessarily because Mr.Hayek will cut Patek off by a specific date (as you st...
Thank you Eric for your advice
Eric, The points that you have raised are very good advice for any of us looking at obtaining PP's at this level. The reason for my question to the forum was that I am not concerned about profiting from the purchase of this watch, however by the same toke...
I feel the same way
My motivation is not to speculate of profit from any appreciation of watches, but I also don't want to buy something that would later be worth considerably less, making the purchase a waste of money. Eric von Schonberg
Thank you for this picture
Hi, Thank you for this point, and even more for your picture that is the most appealing I've seen so far of this watch! It feel now as attracting (for me) as the 5971 that I've always found beautiful. Cheers Dje
I think the 5970P will be collectable, what about the 5131J, and 5131G?
Certainly the 5970P will be a collectable. I do wonder about the 5131J, and the 5131G. Those World Time Watches are not difficult to make and they have made quite a bit of them. I believe that the clonisoine (mispelled) dial may be more difficult to make ...
Diversify, What is this investment garbage.
Which Pateks have you "invested" in so we can determine how much value your portfolio has lost. This it not an investment forum.
Here's parkavenue740 PM response to my above comment. Care to explain ?
Hi arnon, We don't talk about Oil on this site Arnon. You might think that is what we talk about here, but we don't. We talk about Patek Philippe Wristwatches on this site, not OPEC, not Islam. If you wish to talk about Oil Arnon, than I suggest that you ...
I'm more than annoyed now
Park Avenue, We've exchanged enough emails! Please show more respect to others. Your answer is disrespectful in itself and specially since you've been warned several times that it is not an investment forum. Plus the content of your answer is more than bo...
Dje, pleas remind Arnon to keep his arrogance to himself.
Value is not being discussed, Your constant accusations of me discussing value is merely immaginations in your head. What I am asking is no different than discussing whether or not the 5970P is going to be the Patek Watch of 2009, that certainly is discus...
I can't believe what I read, but I should have known
Hi, Here is what you write: "the 5970P will not be made in large amounts, and is a better investment than the 5131J or 5131G" If that's not writing about investment, i.e.value, I don't know what it is! I'm unfortunately not paid by an AD, neither by Patek...
Well, I close the topic, now. Parkavenue, you're indeed on the red line, so
Please, take a rest... Best. Nicolas This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-04-11 12:09:03
New PP5970P - Will this be the PP of 2009
I have no doubt that the new PP5970P will be the PP of 2009. All PP collectors already anticipated this. The next issue is how long will this be in the market. If we gauge at all Platinum models released by Patek the numbers are generally lower thus the r...
You know....? I do not think so.
I actually think this watch did not excite PP lovers all that much... as CL said, some cool variant dial would have been SO amazing... but they made a sort of 'boring' black dial, and did nothing else with the dial to distinguish it from others... so, no,...
I know what you mean, but...
Dear Mostel, When it was released on their homepage I was not euphoric either. I love the other well known predecessors of 5970P, too. So I decided to have a look in Basel. The black dial on 3970 also isn't my first choice (only 5004 black dial with bague...
I didn't know the date was bigger
And do I understand correctly that the case is bigger as well? If this is true, where have I been???? Hmmm. But I thought regular 5970's were 40mm??? If they are 38, I am really in need of a GTG or something!! Is the 5970P bigger than the others? i though...
I have to be patient!
It is confirmed that I get it this year, but not exactly when. We know that :-( The case isn't bigger, only the date on the dial. As soon as I got it I will share some photos with you. Regards Tempus
Yes, it is!
Take a good look: The numbers are slightly bigger and of course because of that the whole circle is bigger. This information was given to me by my AD, otherwise I might not have noticed
How silly of me.....
I thought you mean the cut windows. Yes the date is definitely bigger in the black dial 5970P (not sure about the blue dial version) and , imho , it's not a plus point as it looks less elegant. Maybe they want it to be more of a sporty vibe. *CL
Personally...
I actually don't like the black dial on the new 5970P as much as other 5970s. I'd much rather have the unique piece with the blue dial or I'd rather have the silver dial with the white gold case. Now, I say that I don't like the 5970P as much as the other...
I think the 5970P will definitely a sought after watch but not sure if...
it will be as much sought after as the 5131J/G. Did someone mention the 5131? A sales person at one of the Patek Philippe boutiques (name and location held) told me that despite receiveing over a thousand requests (several hundred at boutiques alone), the...