NickO
1726
I had to look up conflated, that’s a good word, thank you
I can see how my position could be interpreted as elitist, heck I said that myself. But I’m just being honest and saying if part of the value proposition is exclusivity, you’d like that to be defended.
As example - I live in Vegas, and a developer put up a luxury condo high-rise just off the strip. Small condos on the tenth floor or so were going for about a million bucks. After he sold all the units, the same developer put up a second high-rise right next door. It was about twelve floors high and blocked the first fifteen floors or so of the first building from their views of the strip. Prices of those units fell from a million to around $400K. The point is, people bought those units for exclusivity and great views of the strip. That value proposition got diminished. Similarly, and I’m guessing here, most Aston Martin owners were at best indifferent, at worst against, the Cygnet when it launched. Was anyone jumping up and down and celebrating it?
And so, yeah, I’m just being honest when I say I’m not super-thrilled at all the MAD 1 watches being listed as MB&Fs on Chrono24. And I don’t like how many of them are being flipped for a quick buck, I think that’s not a great look for the brand, either. If this makes me elitist, I plead guilty. But you’ll have to explain to me what exactly I’m gatekeeping, as I’m not tracking your point there?
A disastrous branding mistake or pure genius?
This is the M.A.D. 1 watch from the brilliantly creative mind of Max Busser. It’s a relatively inexpensive piece launched by Max as a way of saying thank you to everyone who has contributed to his success over the years. What it is not, and I believe was ...
Ah, em... [cough] Moonswatch (although 1-2 orders of $ magnitude less).
I totally get and agree with your point. Marquee watch makers and brands are selling luxury and exclusivity. They should tread very lightly when taking on projects that could do damage to either of those selling points, whether directly or indirectly. I c...
This second brand Max set up is called M.A.D. EDITIONS
This is, logically, M.A.D. 1., the first piece from that brand. I bet over time we see more. It certainly doesn’t help that websites such as Chrono24 never set that up as a separate brand. So anyone selling this piece lists it as an MB&F. Sometimes, brand...
Ummm... What? Your rant is full of self-contradiction.
You literally say: "That’s a separate brand created by Max with pieces typically six figures and up. And yet I constantly see this watch being referred to as an MB&F." So MB&F itself has separated the brands. In fact, on several occasions during interview...
I appreciate your passion!
My “rant” as you say, was definitely not intended to blame anyone for anything. Yes, they are two separate brands that are often associated together. My post was simply to provoke thought on what are the consequences, if any, of that? And if I missed the ...
NickO, it was very provoking! And you brought up a good point.
And I can totally see where you're coming from. Yes, MB&F is definitely at that "Aston Martin" level in the watch world. A solid analogy. And yes, I can understand Aston Martin owners being upset. All I can say is, if that $10K Aston Martin has a grow...
Patrick, you’re always the man 😀
What’s the deal with the Cygnet? I’ll have to go do some research, but that is so far off the ranch. What was Aston Martin thinking, and did it have any long-term affects on the Aston Martin brand? Just, at first glance, that was crazy…..
It was some inside agent's plan...
I don't know the full story about the Aston Martin Cygnet, but let me hypothesize... To me, it looks like the idea of a management consulting group. Probably a McKinsey or Gallup or Bain. Aston Martin probably said that to the consulting team that here ar...
It's difficult to compare ...
... watches to cars, even when it comes to branding. I remember seeing the Aston Martin IQ / Toyota Cygnet at the dealer ... the Aston dealer and the difference between these two cars was heaven & Earth ... I suppose this should be the same between the MA...
I had to look up conflated, that’s a good word, thank you
I can see how my position could be interpreted as elitist, heck I said that myself. But I’m just being honest and saying if part of the value proposition is exclusivity, you’d like that to be defended. As example - I live in Vegas, and a developer put up ...
These are 2 different brands and products…
To me it is quite clear MB&F makes that clear distinction. It is how the “market”, “collectors” keep on associating the two. And it is not wrong the MAD is the brainchild of Max. The anticipation was expected, be it from MB&F collectors or not - it is...
I agree with you, 100%…
I think Max clearly intended to keep the two brands separate. But the “market”, as you say, keeps on associating the two. My post was simply meant to provoke thought on what are the consequences, if any, of that? Thanks for your considered reply.
The market does what the market does…
Capitalism and exclusivity are strange bedfellows, one often betraying the other
It's an interesting subject that you evoked
I think in the end, pricing and further market penetration of M.A.D. as brand, compared to MF&F pieces, will be clarified over time in the market place as both become better known. The disctinction will become clearer when selling prices show that there i...
These turned out to be so uncool that I kind of want one.
In Zurich, crazy cars come at you like an onslaught. But I saw a Cygnet parked amid the sea of Ferraris and AMG'd G-Class 4x4s, and I lost my mind. It felt like spotting a '57 Chevy in North Korea. The interior work - its only real link to Aston - was imp...
LOL, You should check out The MINI COOPER GOODWOOD Special Edition which is partially made in the Rolls-Royce factory.
Painted by hand at the Rolls-Royce factory, no orange peel. Interior is also made from the same leather. It's the perfect city car for the urban dweller when you can't go out in your Rolls Royce - maybe your "mediocre neighborhood" car.
I strongly doubt there's any risk for MB&F
Just like I doubt anybody's ever cancelled his Asaoka Pura Tourbillon because of Kurono Tokyo, and I doubt anybody's ever bailed on a waitlisted Omega Ed White Cal. 321 because he was offended by the Moonswatch. And I've been doing this for years, but I d...
I’m not suggesting anyone needs a crisis management team
I just don’t know why you’d do it? Why would a high-end luxury marque bring out much lower priced offerings? What is that achieving other than devaluing the mystique and exclusivity of the brand? I don’t know why Aston Martin built the Cygnet. They must h...
Am the type to feel it is simply 'the designer' versus the 'brand'.
Akin to fashion, some designers / stylists have ideas for both entry, mid, and top-level manufacturers. It's all good PS: As much as it pains me to say this, Max may want to consider outsourcing for a strap stylist imho.
Have you heard of the Aston Martin Cygnet?
It's a tiny diminutive city car with a 1.3 liter engine, based off a minuscule Toyota hatchback that was rebadged as an Aston Martin! That aside. Yes, the M.A.D. watch is sometimes mistakenly referred to as an MB&F product. But this is a mistake. I hope I...
I think the MAD watches are really cool and a wonderful introduction to Max’s crazy world
As I replied above, and maybe I’m being overly-sensitive, I’m not a huge fan of the large number for sale on watch websites listed as MB&Fs. It’s also a piece I think a lot of raffle-winners looked to flip, so that’s a separate question of whether that’s ...
Yes, there are unfortunately a lot of raffle winners who flipped.
Some non raffle winners too. I wouldn't flip mine, been offered twice. Besides, the MB&F team knows me, so that'd be a tough conversation.
Managing perceptions of a new brand from an established maker is a challenge.
Web searches for M.A,D, 1 seem to land one on the MB&F site. They could try for better separation of the brands. I was paying some attention to the recent raffle and I never thought at the time about M.A.D. as anything other than MB&F. The new bra...
You raise some good points, Steve
And I don’t think it devalues my pieces, I just don’t like the scope for confusion. But I have to say that with a smile, because I’m guilty the other way. I have a white ceramic Hublot Spirit of Big Bang. I’ve honestly been stopped three or four times and...
Looking upwards from down under on the money ladder :-) this is clearly an ; &friends watch , to me and not an MB&F that i only know from pictures. So no worries !
Brandwise i think it is helpfull for making a larger audience aware of MB&F, as with the ( early ) cheap Ming watches and also the Bunkyo Kurono ( Asaoka ) watches.
It is no different then the "flat 4" or "spider dial"....
by that I mean, it is marketing hype by dealers and wannabe's, Reminds me of big running events of 5, 10, 21 and 42.2 k run in which those that run 5 or 10 a proudly saying "I run the marathon" ...
No, it was done perfectly
I am a hardcore turnaround CEO that has done exclusively consumer deals across a variety of verticals, and this was pretty textbook. Well executed. Most of the cos I've run are sub $100m in rev, which is what I think MB&F is. Seems like they do ~$15m ...