Baron - Mr Red
14613
JKingston....
.....if i wanted to take your argument to its natural conclusion, I would argue that wristwatches of any guise are essentially superfluous given that most people own smartphones. Most complications on most watches are almost certainly superfluous to need. In fact, I am not sure I can think of many complications that are not, in essence, largely redundant in today's high-tech world. Most enthusiasts on PuristS would likely agree that smartphones can readily do the job of telling the time, timing events accurately, showing moon phases, etc etc etc. And I am sure most PuristS would also say that this isn't really what drives their passion in horology.
I would also argue that taste and interpretation is, always, an individualistic issue. What qualifies as "busy" to one person may indeed be intricate and interesting to another. To another, it may be beautiful. Nobody can simply give a verdict on a watch as if "fact".
I think many of the things you state are factually accurate, but where I stop short is giving a verdict on the watch that is either "right or wrong". To me, I think what Patek have done with this watch is fascinating. To me it has a purity of function. Now, we can argue the toss on whether that function is useful or not, but actually in doing so nobody can base their argument on fact. It is a personal view. To my mind, the watch looks aesthetically beautiful. Indeed, I would go as far as to say one of the most attractive modern chronographs. Is this a fact? No...it is just my opinion. You may disagree.....and I am fine with that. Its just your opinion......but its worth remembering that its not "fact".
[175th Anniv.] 5975 Chronograph
Hi everyone, While we are waiting for our fellows Purists from Geneva, I was taking a look at the new chronograph model and took a look at the pictures from Patek's official website (there is a video too for each novelty). The 5975 (4675 for ladies) exist...
The used caliber is exactly the point
As you are saying: this auto chrono movement was designed to run constantly as a "natural" way to work. And as you are correctly saying it gives the watch a simple three hand watch appearance. This one is typical Patek; discrete, elegant, conservative BUT...
You're right
And maybe calling it a chronograph is finally not perfectly appropriate. It is more an unusual (in Patek's collection) complicated 3 hands watch that can be used as an instrument (telemetre, pulsometre and tachymetre). And I love this case :) Cheers, Mark...
Instrument: that is the correct defenition
It is still a chrono as you can start, stop and let it fly back. Just a one1 minute chrono. I find the case also very appealing and the yellow gold version the best looking one. Best Moritz
Yellow gold for you my Count,
but because I'm just a simple man, steel for me. Either black or very dark blue dial... That would drive me nuts. Best, Kari
Perhaps not...
But I would feel modest and a steel watch can be used more freely than a golden one. Best, Kari
Two things I don't like... I would have preferred a manual movement and Leaf hands.
For the rest, I love it... But because it is an automatic movement, it won't be an hypothetic target, for me. Best, Nicolas
I'm not a fan of Dauphine either
Not that the hands of the WT Anniversary could fit this one but I would have liked they make the same effort of making something more original. As for the automatic wind, I do regret the 5170's movement but as it has a solid case-back I don't really bothe...
Well you like the 5980?
Yes, I know its an auto movement, but it was at the time a very interesting display for a chrono, and it was the first in house Patek movement. I do want to also point out, as it appears others don't recall, but you can run the 5980/5960 movement continuo...
Yes, but the 5980 is a sporty watch. I was expecting, for this new watch...
Something else than an auto movement. There is a kind of mismatch between the dial, which looks very retro, classic, and the movement.... Which should have been manual, in my opinion.... Best, Nicolas
There is no mismatch here: it was a strike of genius, the best watch to use this movement
A three scaled chrono in one watch that looks like a three handed classic watch has to be powered by this auto movement. Developer at Patek have used this auto movement possibly in the best way at all as the chrono movement was meant to run continuously a...
Moritz has got it right here.....
.....like you, Nicolas, my first impression was that this would have been better as a manual. Yet, that would have occurred to Patek too....in fact, the question jumps as to why they decided to go automatic....and I think given the lack of sundials, Morit...
the more I see it....
Really growing on me. the shape of the lugs is beautifull, dial is busy but I will get used to it Must say I also prfer manual winding movements and definitely for chronographs but since this one has a solid back I can live with it LOL
This watch can only work with this movement
If you remeber: the first in-house automatic chrono by Patek runs continiously, even if you stop the chrono hand, the chrono movement parts are still running! If Patek would use theire manual chrono for this model the watch would not work as a three hand ...
I felt it yesterday
But today I know for sure, I'm in Love. What a beautiful piece of art it is.
Nico,
Isn't automatic movements a merit than manual ones ? For you can still wind an automatic movement manually but a manual movement cannot be recharged automatically by wearing.
That is why brands are following their marketting Dept.
According to them, 95% of the clients and potential clients are swearing by automatic movements... That is why, in the early 60ies, manual movements were replaced by automatic movements. Some even thought that Quartz was better than mechanical movements.....
My thoughts.....
......this watch has something. It has something of the Factor X about it. I appreciate that this is just a personal opinion and really has no truth other than to me...and on a personal level....but, the last watch that Patek made that had a similar Facto...
Nicely put...
I could read your thoughts all day Joe :) This watch really has something extra, without giving the impression it was superfically build up. The more time passes, the more I might desire it too. Thanks for the input ;) Cheers, Mark
same impression
I didn't like late Patek novelties, (I hate the 5960A :) ) , but this is beautiful. The case is fantastic with this complicated shape, lovely dial reminding the 30s/40s watch (most of the time a telemeter scale actually). The automatic movement can be see...
Joe, you are like a ...
"horse whisperer" to me. I like the way you put it together and I love your passion. Cheers, Oliver
Thank you for the report love the watches, but
what are the pushers for? It's a chronograph that does not record elapsed time so do the pushers simply start, stop and reset the sconds hand?I know this is a stupid question. Love the case and dial, but still trying to understand the watch. Kind regards,...
In fact it is more a measure instrument than a chronograph
You have 3 scales : - Pulsometre (to count your heartbeats over 15 pulsations), - Tachymetre (to measure the speed of an object over 1000km) - and Telemetre (to measure the distance of an object from us by counting the gap between when we see the event st...
... and three hand watch, if you want!
A very important detail :-). This watch can only work with this auto movement from the 5960. Best Moritz
True, a detail I forgot, thanks Moritz :)
And as you said the yellow gold looks fantastic but I presume the way the picture was taken helps this too ;) This 5975 is growing on me. Cheers, Mark
For me I am not a fan as watch doesn't speak to me at all...
But the 5575G does and as long as there is one that speaks to each individually and one has a great chance to get ---that is all that matters! So for me 5575G for sure and for others the 5975. Cheers,
like the Moon watch too, Ken....have to say...its lovely.....
......but the Chrono is the one that calls to me at the moment.....i wonder what it will feel like when it is on the wrist....that will be important. The Moon Time.....beautiful
Funny the case of the world time makes me think of the case of the Seamaster.
With these lyre lugs...
Of course it could also grow on me...
The truth is all of these will be limited and in speaking to Patek not sure how many will even make way here to US. If one can get any of them that fits their bill then get it! I will put in application for enamel as well why not! We shall see. For me the...
Ken...isnt that just the beauty of "taste"....
.....no right...no wrong....just what appeals to us individually? The moment I saw the 5975P I thought it was breathtaking...aesthetically. There is nothing aesthetically I would change. Then I saw it was an automatic movement....and yes, that was a negat...
This is indeed what I could observe
I'm glad we have two quite different watches being able to please a quite wide range of Patek enthusiasts: the 5575 and the 5975. I'm not a fan of the 5130 but I must say they did something really nice with the 5575 :) Cheers, Mark
Form follows function?
As least that's the way I like it for my watches. May I ask what is the point of a 2 pusher chronograph for a chrono that only measure short lapses of time (if I understand correctly)? Off course, this kind of watch has been done before in the 40's (maybe...
That is exactly my point ( your last sentence ).
There is a big mismatch between the look and the mechanic. It is a bit extremist, but in a certain way, it makes me think about Longines re editions. I can't get the point to make a Watch with a strong 30ies / 40ies look and an automatic movement. Last ar...
Good I am not alone... :-)
Dear Nicolas, the two arguments I advance are part of the same logic. I do not know whether there is a sharp difference between a fine and cool automatic movement. For me the first thin El Primero were both... But putting a double pusher where only histor...
It make sens but
Hey Z', What you say is perfectly logical and makes sense (about the monopusher matter). But I would say that a watch should not be judged and analyzed on a sole logic angle and that some unrational or aesthetical criteria could be implied and change the ...
Just read your last sentence.....
.......I can see your issue more now..... ...I think I said from the off.....this is a cool watch. Coolest since the 5070 in terms of chrono. Purity of function. Quirkiness. Aesthetically beautiful. Unique. Its very very cool.
I am not tired repeating it again: it can ONLY be done with this auto chrono
The manual chrono movement would stop after 30 minutes and hence can not be used in this watch as it would not work as a three hand watch. This auto runs perpetually, even if you stop the second hand: it is still running in the "background". The two pushe...
So it would have been a better idea to give this dial a modern look.
Rather than associate an aesthetic which mismatches with This movement. I would have been more seduced, I think. Best, Nicolas
+1, mismatch
I actually think that this lack of feeling/ feel for history is quite surprising for a house like Patek Philippe.
I'm with Moritz on this, Nicolas.....I think once this watch is ....
.....really understood, it will be seen as possibly the killer from the 175th. Its functional purity combined with this quirky "need" for an automatic movement is attractive to me. I think the dial aesthetics are superb. To be blunt, there is nothing abou...
but isn't the fact that it is not a modern dial the thing that makes it cool?
I can see we will be debating this watch for a while! With just 100 worldwide being produced, though, it may be one that never gets real wrist-time appreciation.... We'll have a small private bet (incidentally, you never paid me for the last time I won a ...
Coolness is ok when it is coherent. That is a major issue for me.
As major as a new Longines Chronograph, with an automatic movement, a date, and a dial from the 40ies.... It seems that Patek linked this one to its Past. Which is a major mistake, for those who love modern AND vintage Chronographs. For me, a Nautilus 598...
lets wait until its seen live......
I think its coherent.......for me, it fits into your third category well. We are going to differ on this...and it may take until the watch is released to evaluate it fully. Initially, you said that you didn't like its auto movement..... but its auto movem...
Unfortunately the 100 getting it may keep it in plastic
We will have to see how patek allocates the watches.
A true doctor and scientist: looks to the facts first and than to the whole picture too.!
I was also at the beginning a bit too surprised, too irritated by the 5975. The dial, the unusual function and the movement. But after Mark's comments I remembered the special point / feature of that auto chrono movement and the coin dropped :-). As you a...
With All Respect This is Not So
A regular chrono can do everything this watch does.....and a lot more. A manual chrono does not "stop" after 30 minutes. If you want to keep the chrono running longer it is fine. Who cares if the minute counter is only 30 minutes, it will just run to the ...
Thank you for the technical bits...
... very much appreciated! I do not own a chrono as I am not a " chrono man" and had to rely on my ADs word regarding how a chrono would behave after 30 min. You are saying Patek is not a pioneer. I have quite big difficulties to find another example of a...
"Multi-purpose" chronos
Adding supplemental scales to a chronograph--which is simply an exercise in printing, either on the dial or bezel--is very common. The industry abounds with tachymetre scales, pusometer scales and a few telemetrer scales. Generally to avoid clutter, most ...
JKingston....
.....if i wanted to take your argument to its natural conclusion, I would argue that wristwatches of any guise are essentially superfluous given that most people own smartphones. Most complications on most watches are almost certainly superfluous to need....
Jkingston it is your third post showing you hate that watch
and hence implying that every people with another opinion don't have any taste or just kneel before Patek. I must say I don't like your tone but as you keep on imposing your own opinion as the truth I would like to chime in. First, taking a chrono movemen...
"multipurpose" chronos are historical and very rare ...
... found one on the internet and , sounds a bit smug now, I forgot about this model that I came only across a few times only in "my studies": Omega Museum Collection piece from 2003 with a reference to the 1945 original watch. And also at Omega limited m...
LOL ... ...
plus the only one like this without any subdials for seconds etc. I have found was a Movado from 1945. Yes, manual - as it was 1945 :-)
Moritz ...
Good observations as always and I can follow you very well. Thanks! Oliver
Ok. Does the Emperor Have Clothes
So let's see if I get this straight. Start with a vertical clutch chronograph movement (and we overlook the fact that this movement has a very harsh return to zero). Then we rip out the minute and hour counters so all that is left is a start/stop seconds ...
Mmmh
Although I like this watch because it is a beautiful design, not everything you mention is wrong...
Whenever do you use a chronograph at all?
One aspect is quite correct in your comment: the second hand returns quite harsh to zero. To active the flyback pusher itself requires quite some force as it is not that smooth. In modern world you can argue that a mechanical watch has become nearly obsol...
Amen to your last sentence
Little content, big price, limited series, just for the look? For the rest we have our smart phones? I do not follow you.
Tsss... This is a Patek. End of the discussion. :)
But the good thing is that for the price of this chrono, we can have a nice colllection of fine vintage Chronos... Longines 13 ZN, Omega / Lemania / Tissot / Leroy 33.3 / Minerva 17-29 or 19 - 29 CH, Universal Genève Medico Compax or other, which are fine...
I totally disagree Nicolas
I understand what is your point of view of course. But you judge this different combination by your historical data. From your experience, you've come to feel that some dial layouts are to be found with some type of movements. Every combo out of this grid...
It is like a Maserati, with a diesel engine. To try to make you understand my point.
A dial is a signature. A signature is a kind of DNA. These dials are so 30ies looking that associating them to an automatic movement is just a total heresy. The kind of heresy you can see on the new Longines Chronos which are said to be a Tribute to the P...
I understand,
and we agree on the fact we have a different feeling because we see it from a different perspective. Still my favorite chronos remain the 5070 and maybe a bit of the 5170G Much left to love. Best, Nicolas. Mark
"Does the Emperor Have Clothes"
That´s what came to my mind when I saw the RM 056 and it´s price tag.
Mark, thanks a lot for sharing pictures, details and ...
some personal thoughts. Good observations as always! My favorite chronograph wasn´t shown yet :-) Cheers, Oliver
My pleasure Oliver :)
I see this 5975 is not yet the end of the path for you and we'll be delighted to know more about your experience in the weeks to come I guess. Cheers, Mark