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I always thought of Rolex....
as the 'poster' brand for your analogy. Do I mind any brand obtaining greater visibility/exposure through mass-media product placement and general advertising? Of course not, as they say, no publicity is bad publicity.... With this said, does that drive my own affinities and purchase behaviors? Absolutely not, it never did, even when I was a kid. I always sought products and services that I felt resonated with me personally for whichever philosophical reasons. Unless, of course, you are talking about perishable, basic-need goods like food etc.... I don't care for products at all just because they happen to belong in a 'luxury product category', that to me never carried any weight. They have to patently appeal to me regardless of their 'luxury status', and any manufactured 'image' the product may or may not have. Do I happen to love Aston Martins and Omega watches?? 100%, and neither has anything to do whatsoever with James Bond, whom I find to be a terribly outdated piece of fiction exemplifying pretty much everything that I strongly dislike as a human being....
Giorgio Armani said these profoundly accurate statements relatively recently: 'Eccentric to me means the rigor of absolute purism, waiving any form of decoration, or at least the studied overabundance of decorations. Eccentricity is independence both in thought and in action.' ; as well as 'Luxury is a word I don't care for much these days. It has become a flat concept, no more than a layer of veneer to make products and ideas that don't at all deserve to be defined as such more appealing. Luxury cannot be reduced to a formula.' If I'm not mistaken, I shared these quotes in another thread before, the rappers of the world can puff-up any brand as much as they fancy, it still doesn't improve 98% of their terribly gaudy, uninspired music which perpetually revolves about the exact same hyper-materialistic topics and lifestyles 
. Great topic, as always, cheers, Filip
. Great topic, as always, cheers, Filip
Is Mainstream Appreciation of Patek Philippe A Good Thing? Plus Rap Music and its Surprisingly Large Influence on Luxury Goods.
Moderator Patrick_y explores brand perception and asks if our appreciation for a brand changes as that brand turns mainstream. And a little background on how a brand turns mainstream without the use of traditional advertising nor social media, but with ra...
I'm a little sad that Patek Philippe has become a victim of its own success. But happy that it's getting the recognition it deserves...
High horology is an art form that has gone underappreciated for years. And I'm happy that Patek Philippe has become so successful that it's mainstream. It wasn't easy. It took a lot of time, patience, manpower, and money to shape the brand into what it is...
Does he know what is on his wrist,
or could it just be the "watch of the moment" to him? Granted, he may know more about watches than any man alive. Personally I think a lot of rappers, entertainers etc. wear what seems to be fashionable at the time. Maybe I'm all wrong on this.
All of the exposure seems to be around the sport line -- nautilus and to a lesser extent aquanaut. Higher complications are largely ignored, and white-colored precious metals get little play as well..
To me, this is hardly a sign of the brand "going mainstream", so I disagree with your premise. Also, you seem to think PP is (or was) a secret? I disagree there as well.
True!
You're right, I agree. Patek Philippe wasn't a truly big secret. But it was virtually unknown to the vast majority of the public. 10 years ago, the only brands people knew for watches were primarily Rolex, Omega, and Seiko. Today, Patek Philippe is much m...
I always thought of Rolex....
as the 'poster' brand for your analogy. Do I mind any brand obtaining greater visibility/exposure through mass-media product placement and general advertising? Of course not, as they say, no publicity is bad publicity.... With this said, does that drive m...
It's definitely no longer limited to Rolex...
Rolex has been very mainstream for many decades. But Patek Philippe is a more recent phenomenon as it's now very familiar amongst the general public, not just the more affluent general public. Signor Armani is definitely correct in many ways. The word "lu...
And, happening to work....
in the real estate business at this point in time, 'luxury' branding is extremely over-used when it comes to residential real estate, especially apartments and condominiums - almost every other building, regardless of its physical condition, is touting 'L...
Agreed...
There's no universal standard. I was once in a less advanced country staying at a five star hotel that I found just intolerable. The hotel staff came to me and asked why I was so difficult as this was a five star hotel. I asked the staff member how does h...
x)))
Einstein's relativity applies all over the spectrum of business services and products ........
very intersting points! When I bought my first Patek 10 years ago it was indeed not mainstream at all..
pricing was high but still understandable. There were some wailists for sport models but everything else (or almost) was in stock. When there was a list it was just possible to be patient and get surprised in a few months. Like you pointed out Patek was a...
Thank you for sharing your opinion!
I agree. It shouldn't detract me from enjoying a Patek Philippe. BUT... at the same time, the overdone hype is causing me to enjoy it less, it's also causing me to fear for safety, I can't wear the watch in many neighborhoods anymore. And the fact that ra...
Given the limited production and availability I find it tough
to consider Patek mainstream. When I bought my 5711 in 2012 you could just walk into the AD, hand over the plastic, and take the watch home. I liked it that way and the Nautilus was my primary daily wear for the next 5.years. Didn't matter to me who saw i...
It's getting pretty mainstream.
Back in the day when people made their first million, they would say they wanted a nice Rolex watch. Today, a Patek Philippe is very often mentioned as well. High school kids who listen to rap music know what a Patek Philippe is today and its place at the...
Thanks for framing mainstream in terms of awareness.
I agree for sure brand awareness has gone staight up with Patek. And sadly I have recently felt a heightened awareness about personal safety wearing certain watches. Before it never even crossed my mind, but in the past year now I think about it.
You are a prudent and cautious individual!
And yes, personal safety is now an issue while wearing certain watches. Even Beverly Hills which used to be renowned as a safe destination can be dangerous for diners at a pasta restaurant near Rodeo Drive simply because one of the guests wore a Richard M...
I understand your point, generally Switzerland is very safe but ..
some Patek models can attract unwanted attention especially when travelling. This was not the case a few years ago but now, with the crazy hyped prices, it is easy to see how it could get dangerous. One of my latest acquisition goes in a totally different...
Very nice! I reviewed the diamond version!
Switzerland is definitely not as safe as it used to be. Unfortunately. Dubai is fairly safe. I'm told Monaco is safe.
yes I saw your review !! but with diamonds it becomes not so understated 😁 Strangely..
I feel safer in Switzerland than Dubai, well home is home I guess. Perhaps it has to do with lifestyle too, nightlife not so big for me
Over the years, I feel Geneva is less safe than before...
Having been going to Switzerland for 20 odd years since I was a teenager, I definitely feel some cities have become worse in Switzerland. I mostly go to Geneva, and Geneva has definitely changed for the worse over the years. I've been to Zurich less, but ...
I don't care what celebrity endorses what item...
...if anything, I will go out of my way to NOT buy something because it is endorsed by a celebrity.
Studies show time and time again, that while you will vehemently deny that you're influenced by a celebrity...
You are still influenced or even just introduced to a brand because of it. You may not act upon it, but it may slightly alter your perception of the brand.
Most likely true...
...but I still don't give a flying *&%$ about celebrity endorsements : )
You definitely won't go out of your way...
But it may bring you some exposure to the brand. And familiarity with a brand makes one more likely to purchase that one. For instance, let's say you saw a Patek Philippe and a Vacheron Constantin, both are the same price, the same quality level, a simila...
Precisely, no publicity....
is bad publicity . As long as the messaging is out there, even subliminally, it is bound to have at least a minor impact overall....
I've been on the creative side of marketing (including advertising/packaging)...
...for tech companies for decades, so I am familiar with the process. But believe me when I say I am relatively immune to normal marketing techniques. I know the tricks : )
I do not listen to rap music
I listen to 80 ties music. A bit Daftpunk, Bowie. Kraftwerk, Motörhead, Laibach, Bach, and Paolo Conte. The question, should watches be for watch savants? I have the opinion that the more people wear mechanical watches, the better. So i am glad as also hi...
Well said! Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Yes, as high horology becomes more mainstream, it means that these brands are more likely to survive! And that's definitely a positive!
Thanks for a thought-provoking and typically well-written thread Patrick --- it's interesting to see what our members have to say on this! :-)
While I think I should sit out and just be an observer here, let me only briefly mention that one of the things that always *hugely* attracted me to the brand is Patek's lack of (official!) ambassadors. This has been a deliberate choice consistent with ma...
LoL,
I don't find Omegas desirable because George, perpetually handsome, Clooney happens to be their 'poster-boy' xD.... or Nespresso hahahaha
Yes! Clooney does make everything look so much better!
Always consider the source... Can s/he be an expert witness? I always ask myself, is George Clooney qualified to make a statement about watches? Probably not. Brosnan is more of a watch collector (among movie stars) than most and apparently he knows somet...
Hard to beat the monumental....
dependability of the VW Group.... And yes, my favorite RMs are mostly the ones he designed for Nadal, but my love for those pieces has nothing to do with Nadal, as good of a tennis player as he is . Great points, Filip
But if Nadal and Clooney talked to me about the same watch, I might be convinced... Just kidding...
I was already a big fan of the Lamborghini Huracan. And after hearing such high praise from an instructor who drove all of the makes on a regular basis, I was very convinced. And when I think of sporty cars, I'm thinking of the Huracan!
I totally think....
Lambos are the most reliable supercars, and some of the most daring and original designs. It's just that my tastes have always been more 'mature' in terms of what I felt comfortable with in public, and there's no argument that when you show-up anywhere in...
Very true! They are attention magnets!
However, my fondness of the Lamborghini Huracan is entirely based on one thing, it's an amazing car, has everything I value in a sports car, and is very emotional with the way it drives. The steering isn't the best - could have more feel, the suspension i...
Unsurprisingly....
I have seen a decent number of them in recent times in West L.A. Some of them even being street parked due to their rather compact size. It's a great proposition, no question! Thanks for the engaging conversation, cheers, Filip
Well said FabR! That was a fabulous post!
I hesitated posting this, as I felt it showed a potential bias of mine and that it was borderline anti-rap music, which is not an image I want to portray (anyone can listen to whatever kind of music they want as long as it's not too loud, in a public plac...
I am happy for the brand, but unfortunately
"Pride" driven over demand worsen availability and fuel grey market situation.
It's definitely toxic for your bank account!
Just like Gelato is toxic for my waistline!
Agreed...
I'd say I'm not influenced by anybody... But I have to admit, sometimes members tell me to consider something, and I actually go look at it in the store, and I realize some watches that I never would have considered do have their merits!
I had this conversation earlier this month with another person...
She insisted that she wasn't influenced whatsoever by any form of marketing. Her husband and I continued to show how she was slightly influenced and how Facebook and Google really GET YOU! She's not on Facebook, but even Google ad words get her! The best ...
Especially when spread over a period of time.. like the time spent on this forum!!! Great post, Patrick. Btw, as proof..
I still remember your post about Away luggage ;-)
Thank you for the kind words!
The luggage hasn't seen the normal use due to COVID! But still like it! It's not any worse than my Rimowa! And it's 1/8th the price.
The cigarette burn?
That's just his kind of behavior I guess. I'd speculate that he got it while being drunk or on some other worse behavior, but that'd be just pure speculation.
This is a very good post, thought provoking.
The question: will going mainstream reduce desirability in the long run? I think there are pros and cons. Without giving it too much thought, I’ll like to rattle off on my humble 2 cents. The pros: 1. Becoming mainstream means more market awareness, and i...
I don't like rap music neither...
Although while I personally don't like it, I definitely realize that millions of people do and it's a very large genre. Rap isn't likely the favored medium on WatchProSite, a more genteel audience than probably the average and median rap-music-aficionado....
You are a
star when it comes to raising interesting questions. For me it is important that when I spend my money on something I really appreciate I dont like to see it frequently with others. For example if I go to a wedding reception I dont want to see the same ca...
this is interesting but if we take it to another level I found that if you have a piece unique it can be quiet boring
because nobody has it it makes it a very lonely experience additionaly you get zero recognition because nobody knows what you are wearing so perhaps there has to be a balance between wearing a watch that is exclusive but some people know about 😁
I do see your point
and I agree that with your way of reasoning it is likely that you would get more recongnition. However my experience is that if you come with a watch (or a car) that is seldom seen "live" but only in magazines you will get recogniton as well and that will...
So true!
Thank you for your kind words... I try to come up with interesting topics. Forgive me when I come up with a boring one - it happens every now and then! You're definitely right about people wearing the same thing! I call it the "uniform." I was at a car ev...
Hmm... I remember him losing his watches to escorts...
That was definitely not a good day for Mr. Sheen!
I dont think there is anything wrong with more popularity….
But Patek is not and cannot be mainstream… with 60K watches a year, this is a very small number compared to who wants a Patek… Ferrari has the same position… a lot of popularity but limited access… I think this is good for the brand… However, the biggest ...
"Mainstream Appreciation" is defined as ownership, the brand "Patek Philippe" is now becoming a mainstream brand - everyone knows what it is...
Ferrari is definitely a mainstream brand. My father who is not a car person whatsoever, has heard of it, can recognize it, and probably even knows the horse logo. Lamborghini would probably be considered less mainstream since less people know what it is. ...
Thanks for an interesting post !
For me, I cannot remember when and how I learned about Patek many years ago. This brand has always meant tops for me even way before I could afford a piece. As long as Patek continues not using paid Ambassadors, I continue to be loyal to Patek. If rappers...
I first learned about Patek Philippe through another pen collector in Singapore...
This fountain pen collector in Singapore had a Jaeger-LeCoultre, a brand that I was aspiring to own a Reverso piece, so he had my attention. And he introduced me to the Patek Philippe Calatrava 5000. Just from his photos, I immediately identified that the...
Patrick, you do whatever you feel comfortable with. I will simply continue
to be loyal to the Patek brand and wearing my Patek watches.
Things are a little safer in your part of the world...
Here in San Francisco, you read about lots of security problems. Sometimes it's violent and people are injured. Hopefully the nice accessories can come out again soon.
Yes. He's not exactly the kind of crowd I normally hang out with...
Nor do I aspire to have a cigarette burn on my hand! But that's the crowd of people who want to wear Patek Philippes nowadays!
I don't know how much
H knows about watches but he knows very little about how to treat a cut or burn. Some ointment and a bandage causes cuts and burns t miraculously heal. Uncovered no so much. As far as the watches being worn by new money athletes and entertainers goes, thi...
I used to say Not In My Back Yard too...
I used to actively avoid brands that were in vogue by rap musicians. When I heard that the rap musicians were conquering Burberry, I was thinking I might have to stop patronizing Burberry or else I'd look like a follower of pop culture influence. The prob...
I'll be in the corner with my JLCs...
enjoying the quality AND the anonymity of their little wrist gems! -Dean
So many clever things
have already been written here that my answer seems almost too … simple. 1. Patek makes some fantastic watches (and some almost out of this world). 2. Patek nowadays (not in the past!) fuels the hype itself and flirts with greed and new wealth (keywords: ...
Thank you for the kind words!
Patek Philippe is definitely happy about all the auction results. It's free marketing to them! Thierry Stern is probably thinking... "I sold that Nautilus to the dealer for 20,000 Francs, the dealer sold it to the customer for 35,000 Francs, and the custo...