Patek Philippe

"It embodies the values and standards of our family watch company". You may have already read this sentence that is the introduction to the Patek Philippe Seal launched this year. Now that the passion seen at the launch of this Patek Philippe Seal is quie...  

I consider the new seal program to be in poor taste. However, if it makes people other than me open their wallets, it is a success. I particularly object to the accuracy standard embodied in the seal criteria. Average accuracy is a matter of luck and care... 

Hi, I read your point but a seal is a commitment and a commitment is not a reputation. The reputation comes from the level of respect of the commitment! Regarding accuracy Patek Philippe's requiremetns are not limited to what I wrote but what I wrote is w... 

I agree 100% with everything you say. ili

I'm convinced that the Patek Philippe Seal is a seal with good intentions that will further signify Patek Philippe as a leader in customer service. However, it does seem to step on the toes of the original Geneva Seal governing body and the others who uph... 

Wise thoughts Patrick, and thank you for your comments! I've long loved this pocket watch and seeing two of them on the same day was something! At least after such an experience I could (shortly) rest in the VIP room! Cheers Dje

a very well done post. For sure, worth to keep it on my HD. Thanks, for all your efforts! Some "sceneries" looked familiar to me and brought back nice memories Oliver

nt

So, why does PP need a seal, being Geneva or Patek? That is the question which remains. I find the PP seal redundant with the claim of Excellence. Excellence, nor PP doesn't need a seal. So, besides this personal opinion, I want to congratulate you for th... 

I think the point is not to convince us (I do agree with you: the name on the dial is enough) but to weaken the Geneva Seal. Well, that's my theory. Fr.Xavier

I too believe that the Patek Philippe Seal is supposed by essence to surpass and improve on the Geneva Seal! Cheers Dje

Hi, Indeed that's your personal opinion, not mine! If they had named it "Patek Philippe quality chart" or "Patek Philippe commitments" or whatever...... would have that changed something! A seal replaces a seal! That's it! Cheers Dje

No message body

With competition in the market of highly complicated watches in the 6 figures, Patek must continue with new innovations, strong R&D, and superior brand recognition otherwise they cannot continue as a independent watch making company. I for one am thrilled... 

nt

nt

I appreciate the time you've put in to that article, especially the illustrations, but I still have one major concern, openness/auditability. The COSC, for all it's flaws, the Geneva Seal Org and the QF certs are all given by an organization outside the w... 

And to all the members who have shown either agreement or have bought a constructive criticism to the table.

nt

Hi Aaron, Do you really think that the Geneva Seal control process is any better than what you describe as negative for the Patek Philippe Seal? If you've read my words and not just looked at the pictures you may have understood that the Patek Philippe Se... 

But if Patek wants to present the PP seal as a marked improvement over the GS, and superior to the other alternate "seals" out there, it would be nice to know how it is superior. I'll admit that the finishing descriptions are more detailed than the other ... 

Hi Aaron, Patek Philippe doesn't want to present its seal as an improvement over the GS, and doesn't refer to other seals either. There are many many points in watchmaking that have no standard of reference, so for instance there is no definite way to dec... 

but it seemed to be a clear message in the adoption of the PP seal and the dropping of the GS. They could have easily made the PP seal incorporate the GS, but instead they simply stopped using the GS. I didn't hear them ever say "we are replacing/improvin... 

Of course Patek Philippe didn't drop the Geneva Seal to adopt lesser requirement ! So obviously if they choose to change it's certainly because they consider their Seal to be in some ways superior to the Geneva Seal. In fact whatever the Geneva Seal chang... 

What an excellent article for me to learn the PP Seal!

nt

When I first read about the PP seal, I commented on this forum that it was fatally flawed, in that it was not an external evaluation. I later read the interview with Stern in the PP magazine & changed my mind. The new PP seal seem to primarily be a statem... 

nt

I've been retired now for nearly ten years. All my working life was spent as an Engineering designer, a draughtsman to most. When my drawing were prepared, they had to be 'checked' by, yes you guessed it, by a 'checker'. Often the checkers would be busy a...  

It's all marketing hype.

nt

D in W said: How on earth can anyone give a seal of approval to themselves? e.g. I've done well today, think I'll give myself a 'D in W' seal......utter rubbish, it's meaningless. Let’s go to another field. I run a general ICU. Some studies have shown tha... 

nt

It is impossible to objectively self-regulate. An example is in medicine where, before the Bolitho case (UK), doctors could in effect self-regulate themselves to the point of theoretically winning all negligence cases. This was through the precedent set b... 

You seem to be putting a lot of faith in the Geneva Seal. Maybe too much, to receive it One example of a watch must be submitted, then that same series can be made for 1 year or 40 years, only the one watch is checked. Dje said it right here "Keeping the ... 

nt

Hi, Patek Philippe has a "comite du poincon" that incorporates people from outside the company. patek.watchprosite.com Cheers Dje

Thank you Jerome! They do indeed state an independent body known as 'Comité du Poinçon' as verified under the 'Seal regulations' section. patek.com

Anybody who see the Patek Philippe Seal as unserious should IMO and with all due respect see the Geneva Seal as a mockery! I weight my words! Self control inside a company is possible. That's the basic notion of normalization and all quality controls are ... 

Patek shouldn't have been so surprised to see Cartier get the Geneva seal. If you look at the Geneva seal requirements, they all pretty much relate to polishing and finishing. It's little wonder then that a jewelry company, Cartier, would be able to quali... 

MY question really is : Had Patek ( NOT) name the seal under this name, would the reaction from the general public be less harsh ??

Hi, That's a good question. I'm surprised by the allergic reactions to this Seal. Would it be because people realize (or don't want to) that the Geneva Seal is not so much of a proof of overall quality finally? Cheers Dje

Gentlemen, aren't we all mature enough to know that the end purpose of these seals, bells and whistles is to improve the bottom line of the company? It amazes me that so many otherwise savvy and educated people believe in marketing hype as if it were a se... 

Of course all companies have for purpose to improve their bottom line, but the difference relies on the way they choose to do it! The essence of this Seal may well be to forbid to do it at any price, but to do it respecting the family, company and watchma... 

Talking about marketing hype.

assuming, the Cartier watch passes all Patek Seal requirements. What will happen next? If watches from other brands are able to get Patek Seal certification, the only problem I have with this Seal is the name. Patek should have issued it some other name r... 

Hi Anthony, That will not happen as the Patek Philippe Seal is not open to watches from others makes ! So Cartier would have to create its Cartier Seal, if they are tempted! J Cheers Dje

They already "have to" produce the best watch possible It is already the politic of the Brand. So why? I agree with some points above. How can you call that a seal? A seal means independant and for everyone who one to get to a standard. Parmigiani Fleurie... 

Hi Cisco, Sorry but I think you're just wrong about what a seal is. There's no notion of independant body in a seal. Nor does that signify that such a seal has to be opened to any other make! A seal means that the company or the body applying its seal gua... 

But I think you can find some justification inside my post. You think a seal doesn't mean independant, for me it does. Patek has to do the best watches. Not because of a seal, just because of the name. For me this name means more than any thing. Making a ... 

Hi, no problem! i understand your posiiton and I understand that you're not at ease with communication, but all companies must communicate and watchmakers now live in a communication word so if you don't comunicate you're dead! The new customers for tomor... 

it seems that with the launch of this new seal and all it brings (promises), I can only imagine what pressure it will bring to the QC department. After all, I would assume that there will be no problems with watches built to such strict standards. And, I ... 

nt

I wonder about the person who has read all the wonderful things about the seal, goes out and buys a watch and has problems from the get-go. Is the seal a promise that this won't occur?

Hi, Whatever the quality is, quality problems can always happen, specially with mechanical watches! The Patek Philippe Seal is not a reliability seal. It is a commitment to do their best at all steps to avoid problems (among many other commitments). Certa... 

I would think that Patek has had an ongoing commitment to produce their watches to this level, so maybe I'm missing something here. I believe a seal, to the average customer, would imply reliability (performance) as well. You are absolutely right though, ... 

Yes Patek Phillipe has an ongoing commitment to produce watches of a very high level of quality! Planes are produced to a high level of quality, still there are planes crashing! Yes the Seal implies reliability, but is not a promise of perfection, just of... 

and this has been a great exchange of different views from Patek Philippe owners, collectors, etc. around the globe. I can't speak of planes because I don't know the facts of why they crash, but I can speak about folks who have had issues with newly purch... 

Hi, Thank you for your comments. As I understand it the Seal is a commitment towards an overall quality. It does not necessarily changes much the way things are done right away. It is a basis to secure what is well done and then certainly improve what has... 

nt This message has been edited by Mostel on 2009-10-28 21:40:39

nt

Let me preface by saying I would not choose to buy a PP because of the PPS...(or GS for that matter). I would buy a Patek (or any other watch) for what I perceive to be the level of quality and design I am looking for. Having said that, if what PP is sett... 

Thank you for sharing your point of view! Your arguments are comprehensive seen from your side but seen form PP I don't think that would be the case….. This is not Patek Philippe's role to put a defy to other watchmakers or watchmaking companies, or... 

"Isn't that what the Geneva Seal started out as??" The Geneva Seal started out as a way for Geneva brands to "discriminate" (in all the glorious senses of the term) for Geneva based brands and against non-Geneva based sub-contractors who were slowly encro... 

nt

and your passion for the brand really shows... Maybe this is just a newbie question, does this mean that only certain watches in the Patek line would get the PP seal? I may have missed that in reading about the seal from countless other articles. Its stil... 

No all new Patek Philippe has supposed to get the Seal. If they don't meet the requirements they don't get out! J Yes the Seal is marketing in some way, but the content of the Seal is real work! Always hard to self police, sure, but it's still better than... 

Dear Dje, For clearing situation with PP seal I should note that PP does not "include" COSC. The COSC method of certification is very well known and includes tests under various conditions. PP does (that was mentioned in PP press-releases) only simulation... 

Hi, Maybe the PP tests are not the same as the COSC tests. And I'm glad they are not identical in fact. In fact I see the COSC tests as much theoretical as the PP chronometric tests. Indeed the COSC tests are done only on calibres. The Patek Philippe chro... 

But now neutral. If the new PS enforces higher quality and standards then I will accept it. I trust PP to provide a credible seal even if its it's own seal. Maybe tomorrow GP and JCL will attain the Patek Seal too and then compete with the Geneve Seal. Is... 

Hi, I'm sure Patek Philippe would not do that for lower standards. That's pretty brave from them IMO, because they can't fail! Cheers Dje

I missed this one... thanks cheers